文字實(shí)錄 · Transcript

自5月15日起，北京警方將展開(kāi)為期100天的專(zhuān)項(xiàng)行動(dòng)集中清理在華非法居留、就業(yè)、以及入境的外國(guó)人, 這一消息來(lái)自于北京市公安局。據(jù)媒體報(bào)道，一些地區(qū)如成都、吉林延邊都展開(kāi)了類(lèi)似的行動(dòng)。這些行動(dòng)究竟是個(gè)別現(xiàn)象，還是有著深層的社會(huì)、文化和法律背景？讓我們先聽(tīng)聽(tīng)大家怎么說(shuō)吧。

Starting on May 15, the Beijing police will serve in a 100-day campaign to crackdown on foreigners who live, work and travel in China illegally. That's according to the Beijing Public Security Bureau. Media report that officials in Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan province, and Yanbian in Jilin province, are rolling out similar actions. Are these actions isolated moves or rooted in a deeper social, cultural and legislative context? Let's hear what people say first.

受訪者：我聽(tīng)說(shuō)他們檢查得更細(xì)致了，比如（檢查）街上外國(guó)人的護(hù)照、簽證。我目前才在北京居住了兩星期, 我父母已經(jīng)告訴我，到公安局辦理（手續(xù)）。

Respondent: I just heard that they check better passport and visa (of) foreign people on the streets. I've been living in Beijing (for) two weeks, and my mother and father already told me to go to the police (to complete all my paperwork).

記者：這次行動(dòng)對(duì)你的生活有什么影響？

Reporter: Has the action affected your life in any way?

受訪者：沒(méi)什么影響。因?yàn)槲沂且粋€(gè)學(xué)生，我大部分時(shí)間都在學(xué)校里，而且我不怎么離開(kāi)學(xué)校。

Respondent: I don't think, really. Because I'm a student, I spend all my time at my school, and I don't go a lot of times out of the school.

受訪者：沒(méi)有，我還沒(méi)有發(fā)現(xiàn)什么變化。不過(guò)，我確實(shí)隨身攜帶我的護(hù)照。我以前不這樣做，但是現(xiàn)在開(kāi)始這么做了。

Respondent: No, I haven't seen anything yet. Actually, I do carry my passport. I didn't use to do that, but now I actually do.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得沒(méi)什么影響。我總是隨身帶著我的證件。

Respondent: It doesn't influence (me) in any way. I think I always bring my documents with me.

受訪者：首先，我要去警察局注冊(cè)登記我的詳細(xì)住址。如果我離開(kāi)現(xiàn)在的住所，我必須告知警察我要搬到哪里去。

Respondent: First, I have to register with the police to tell exactly where I'm living. And if I leave the place I'm living at, I have to tell the police and notify them where I'm going to be staying.

記者：您對(duì)這次行動(dòng)有什么看法？

Reporter: What do you think about their action?

受訪者：我不太明白為什么這一次要比以往嚴(yán)厲。

Respondent: I don't really understand why (they're doing it) now. It's more severe than before.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得情況不是很好。這是我在中國(guó)的第二年，之前從來(lái)沒(méi)有人查過(guò)我的證件，有時(shí)候隨身攜帶證件很麻煩，因?yàn)槟銜?huì)忘記。

Respondent: I think it's a very difficult condition. I'm in my second year in China, but they never asked me about my papers, and sometimes it's so difficult to bring your papers with you, because you'll forget it.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得很正常，因?yàn)樵谖业膰?guó)家法國(guó)，警察也經(jīng)常檢查移民的證件，在中國(guó)不是經(jīng)常見(jiàn)到警察。通常在法國(guó)，到處都是警察，但這里不是這樣。

Respondent: I think it's pretty normal, because in my country in France, police also check immigrants' papers. I don't see police much in China. Usually in France, we have a lot of police everywhere, but in here, I don't see so much.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得只要不太過(guò)分就可以，只要不是隨時(shí)隨地地檢查就沒(méi)有問(wèn)題。

Respondent: I think it's OK if it's not too much, all the time on the corner of the street. I think (it's OK).

受訪者：我覺(jué)得這樣做是正確的，我完全贊同這個(gè)行動(dòng)。

Respondent: I think it's the right thing to do. I totally agree with it.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得有點(diǎn)過(guò)了，不能因?yàn)橐粋€(gè)人的所作所為就指責(zé)所有外國(guó)人。為了一個(gè)人的行為就追查所有外國(guó)人，這有點(diǎn)不公平。

Respondent: I think it's a bit excessive, maybe, to blame all the foreigners for the action of one person. Tracking down all the foreigners for the action of one person just seems not fair.

記者：你認(rèn)為這次行動(dòng)背后的原因是什么？

Reporter: What do you think to be the reason behind it?

受訪者：我完全不知道。倒是有各種各樣的傳聞，但是根據(jù)我所讀到的，這次行動(dòng)只是政府想要檢查（外國(guó)人的）證件，他們想要徹底打擊非法移民。

Respondent: I have no idea. There are different rumors on it, but as far as I read, it's just (that) the officials want to check the documents and really want to bring down illegal immigration.

受訪者：我想可能和最近一個(gè)英國(guó)人在街上企圖強(qiáng)奸中國(guó)女孩的事件有關(guān)，現(xiàn)在他們只是想更細(xì)地檢查在華外國(guó)人。

Respondent: I guess it (is related to) this recent event of this British guy trying to rape a girl on the street, and now they just want to check better about foreigners coming in China.

記者：您對(duì)這個(gè)行動(dòng)怎么看呢？

Reporter: What do you think about the action?

受訪者：我覺(jué)得應(yīng)該支持，我挺支持的。

Respondent: I support the action.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得外國(guó)人在中國(guó)算是很好的，但是可能有一些人簽證過(guò)期。這邊如果對(duì)他沒(méi)有限制的話，可能他們會(huì)做出一些違反中國(guó)法律的事，他們也不懂，所以我覺(jué)得會(huì)危害我們。

Respondent: I think it's good that foreigners live in China, but some people's visas might have expired. If there is no regulation, they might do something against China's laws, they might not even be aware of, but they would harm us.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得外國(guó)人在中國(guó)也就是普通的人群。我們就只能把他當(dāng)作一個(gè)進(jìn)入到中國(guó)的人而已。

Respondent: I think foreigners in China are just ordinary people. We should treat them just as regular people as we are.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得每一個(gè)國(guó)家都會(huì)采取一些對(duì)于在本國(guó)滯留的外國(guó)人一些合法的行(動(dòng))。

Respondent: I think every country is legitimized to have certain regulations on its foreign population.

記者：那你認(rèn)為北京警方這次行動(dòng)背后的原因是什么？

Reporter: What do you think to be the reason behind the action?

受訪者：應(yīng)該是出于目前社會(huì)的壓力吧。現(xiàn)在社會(huì)出現(xiàn)的事也挺多的。現(xiàn)在有些“三非”的人在這沒(méi)有固定的收入，也沒(méi)有固定工作，有些在這來(lái)?yè)v亂社會(huì)治安，所以我挺支持這事的。

Respondent: I think it comes from our social anxiety. There are so many things happening in the society. Some illegal immigrants don't have stable income and jobs. Some ended up disturbing our social order, so I support the action.

受訪者：前一段時(shí)間（發(fā)生在）宣武區(qū)強(qiáng)奸中國(guó)女子的事，其實(shí)很多時(shí)候你別把它看成是外國(guó)人（做的事）， 它其實(shí)就是一個(gè)很普通的案件。很多中國(guó)人感覺(jué)很憤慨，其實(shí)我覺(jué)得憤怒的并不是外國(guó)人對(duì)我們中國(guó)人如何，很多時(shí)候憤怒的是對(duì)政府的一種失望，覺(jué)得中國(guó)人可能沒(méi)有人家外國(guó)人有權(quán)利。

Respondent: Talking about the rape of a Chinese woman in Xuanwumen area, let's not see it as something done by a foreigner. It's actually an ordinary case. Many Chinese feel outraged, but I don't think they were furious with what foreigners did to Chinese but were disappointed in the government. They feel Chinese citizens don't enjoy as much privilege as foreigners.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得那個(gè)是事情的一個(gè)誘因吧。現(xiàn)在這個(gè)事情發(fā)生了，可能大家對(duì)于在中國(guó)的很多外國(guó)人非法居留或者從事一些非法活動(dòng)這個(gè)問(wèn)題引起了更深的關(guān)注。

Respondent: I think that incident is a trigger. It makes people more aware of issues of some foreigners staying in China illegally or violating Chinese laws.

受訪者：我覺(jué)得這還和國(guó)際的大環(huán)境有關(guān)系，比如說(shuō)有些人可能是間諜。

Respondent: I think it's linked to the international environment. For example, some people might be spies.

記者：那您平常對(duì)在北京生活的外國(guó)人印象怎么樣？

Reporter: What is your impression of foreigners living in Beijing?

受訪者：我認(rèn)為總體我接觸的外國(guó)人都還（可以）。我身邊的還好一些吧。

Respondent: In general, I think the foreigners I know are OK. I think the foreigners I know are OK.

受訪者：其實(shí)我接觸到大多的外國(guó)人還是挺友好的。

Respondent: Most of the foreigners I meet are actually quite friendly.

受訪者：層次也是參差不齊。大部分都是好的，但是有一些可能在國(guó)外就是比較混的。

Respondent: They vary. Most of them are good, but some might have been hooligans even before they came to China.

通過(guò)街訪，我們發(fā)現(xiàn)很多人在被問(wèn)起他們猜想警方行動(dòng)的原因時(shí)都提到了一個(gè)事件，讓我們?cè)倩仡櫼幌逻@個(gè)事件。

From the street interviews, we found many people mentioned one incident when asked what they think to be the reason behind police's crackdown. A recap of the event might give you more ideas.

根據(jù)中國(guó)日?qǐng)?bào)報(bào)道，5月8日晚，一名英籍游客涉嫌在北京宣武門(mén)地區(qū)當(dāng)街猥褻一名中國(guó)女子。這個(gè)男子的行為被拍攝下來(lái)并放到了網(wǎng)上，視頻顯示這名女子放聲大哭說(shuō)她并不認(rèn)識(shí)這個(gè)外國(guó)男人。幾個(gè)中國(guó)男子在聽(tīng)到呼救后前來(lái)援救，他們打了這個(gè)英國(guó)人，而他隨即躺在了馬路中央。上百萬(wàn)人看了這個(gè)視頻，很多人在網(wǎng)上表達(dá)了他們的憤慨。

According to China Daily reports, a British tourist was suspected of sexually assaulting a Chinese woman on Xuanwumen Dajie in Beijing at about 11 pm on May 8. The man's actions were caught on video and then posted online. The video shows the woman crying out in distress and saying she doesn't know the foreign man. A few Chinese men came to the woman's aid after they heard her calls. They beat the British tourist, who was then lying in the middle of the road. Millions of people watched the video, and tens of thousands have expressed their outrage online.

一周后，北京警方展開(kāi)了為期100天的專(zhuān)項(xiàng)行動(dòng)，在外國(guó)人聚居的地點(diǎn)檢查一些人的護(hù)照和居留證件。兩個(gè)事件相隔如此之短，很難讓人不把它們聯(lián)系起來(lái)。

A week later, the Beijing police issued the 100-day campaign to check passports and accommodation registration in areas where foreigners gather in Beijing. The interval between the two events was so short that many couldn't help think one caused the other.

但是據(jù)中國(guó)日?qǐng)?bào)報(bào)道，警察否認(rèn)了這種說(shuō)法，說(shuō)這次清理行動(dòng)僅僅是為了打擊外國(guó)人非法工作、居留以及入境等問(wèn)題。而且警察說(shuō)，此事件中的英籍男子確有合法簽證，但是，為什么要在現(xiàn)在清理呢？非法移民問(wèn)題在中國(guó)究竟有多嚴(yán)重？讓我們來(lái)看一些數(shù)據(jù)。

But China Daily reported that the police denied that idea and said the crackdown only aims at tackling the illegal employment of foreigners, overstaying and illegal entry. After all, the police said the suspected British man involved in the incident does have a valid visa. But why start the crackdown now? How serious is the problem of illegal immigrants in China? Let's look at some numbers.

據(jù)公安部統(tǒng)計(jì)，2011年，外國(guó)人入境中國(guó)共計(jì)5400多萬(wàn)人次。他們來(lái)到中國(guó)的目的各不相同，有旅游、會(huì)議商務(wù)、就業(yè)、學(xué)習(xí)以及探親訪友。據(jù)北京警方的數(shù)據(jù)，平均每天有20萬(wàn)外國(guó)人居住停留在北京。

According to the Ministry of Public Security, foreign visitors made about 54 million trips to the Chinese mainland in 2011. They came to China for various purposes like tourism, business and conference, employment, study and reuniting with friends and families. Beijing alone hosts an average of 200,000 foreigners per day. That's according to the city police.

2011年，外國(guó)人來(lái)華人數(shù)居前十位的國(guó)家是：韓國(guó)、日本、俄羅斯、美國(guó)、馬來(lái)西亞、新加坡、越南、蒙古、菲律賓，以及加拿大。中國(guó)最近一次的人口普查顯示，中國(guó)接收外國(guó)人最多的前十位地區(qū)是：廣東、上海、北京、江蘇、福建、云南、浙江、山東、遼寧以及廣西壯族自治區(qū)。

The 10 countries that sent the most visitors to China in 2011 were: the Republic of Korea, Japan, Russia, the United States, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Mongolia, the Philippines and Canada. China's latest census shows the top 10 Chinese regions that receive most foreign residents are: Guangdong province, Shanghai municipality, Beijing municipality, Jiangsu province, Fujian province, Yunnan province, Zhejiang province, Shandong province, Liaoning province and Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region.

1980年外國(guó)人入境74萬(wàn)人次，這個(gè)數(shù)字到2011年增長(zhǎng)了近36倍達(dá)到2700多萬(wàn)人次。1980年，在華居住超過(guò)六個(gè)月的外國(guó)人有近2萬(wàn)人, 到2011年增長(zhǎng)到60多萬(wàn), 增長(zhǎng)了大約30倍。這些常住居民主要為三資企業(yè)工作人員、留學(xué)生、教師、外企駐華機(jī)構(gòu)代表及其親屬。截至2011年底，約有4700個(gè)外國(guó)人獲得中國(guó)永久居住權(quán)。

About 740,000 foreigners entered China in 1980; the number grew 36 times that – to over 27 million – in 2011. In 1980, there were 20,000 foreigners that lived in China for more than six months. That number went up to 600,000 in 2011, representing a 30-time increase. These long-term residents were mainly employees of foreign-funded enterprises, students, teachers, and representatives of foreign companies as well as their relatives. As of the end of 2011, about 4,700 foreign residents held China's permanent residence.

1995年，中國(guó)警方查處了1萬(wàn)人次“三非”外國(guó)人，即非法居留、就業(yè)及入境的外國(guó)人，這個(gè)數(shù)字到2011年時(shí)翻了1倍。公安部統(tǒng)計(jì)，大部分簽證過(guò)期后非法居留的外國(guó)人由于不了解中國(guó)法律而違法，而非法入境者大部分來(lái)自鄰國(guó)，非法就業(yè)的主要集中在教學(xué)、演出和家政等領(lǐng)域。

Chinese police dealt with 10,000 foreigners living, working and travelling illegally in 1995. That number doubled in 2011.The ministry reported most illegal immigrants who outstayed their visas in China were not aware of China's law. Those who entered illegally mainly came from neighboring countries. And those who took jobs illegally were mainly working as teachers, performers or housekeepers.

當(dāng)這些數(shù)據(jù)看似顯示了中國(guó)逐漸成為一個(gè)熱門(mén)的國(guó)際移民目的地，但是聯(lián)合國(guó)人口司的數(shù)據(jù)則顯示了一個(gè)更大的格局。

While these numbers seem to show China is getting more and more popular as a destination for international migration, the United Nations Population Division presents a bigger picture.

截至2009年，國(guó)際移民仍然集中在少數(shù)歐洲國(guó)家、北美和澳大利亞，移民占據(jù)了這些國(guó)家總?cè)丝诘?％到20％。相比之下，中國(guó)只有不到0.1％的國(guó)際移民。

As of 2009, international migrants were still concentrated in a limited number of countries in Europe, North America and Australia. Migrants in these countries took up 7 to 20 percent of their total population, whereas China's migrants account for less than 0.1 percent.

一方面，在華的外國(guó)人數(shù)迅速增長(zhǎng)，另一方面，中國(guó)現(xiàn)行的出入境管理法是1985年通過(guò)的目前已經(jīng)有些落后。正因?yàn)槿绱耍瑖?guó)務(wù)院向全國(guó)人大遞交了新出入境法的草案，人大于2011年12月進(jìn)行了第一次審議，并于今年4月進(jìn)行了第二次審議。

While the number of China's foreign visitors and residents is growing significantly, China's current law on exit and entry, which was passed in 1985, seems quite outdated. Because of this, the State Council submitted a draft law to the National People's Congress for its first hearing in December 2011. The NPC just had its second hearing this April.

立法者在草案中加入了一些條款，例如外國(guó)人進(jìn)入中國(guó)需要提供他們的生物特征識(shí)別數(shù)據(jù)；如果在中國(guó)停留超過(guò)180天需要取得居留證件；這份草案特別增加了關(guān)于“三非”的內(nèi)容：規(guī)范在中國(guó)非法居住、就業(yè)以及入境的外國(guó)人。

Lawmakers added a number of items in the draft. For example, foreigners entering China are required to provide their biometric data. They need to get a residence permit if staying in China for longer than 180 days. The draft law made specific regulations on the "three illegals", referring to those who live, work and travel in China illegally.

立法者還加入了綠卡制度或者說(shuō)，永久居住權(quán), 并且明確了外國(guó)人獲得中國(guó)永久居住權(quán)的條件。我們從社會(huì)、歷史以及法律的角度了解了在華的外國(guó)人，那么這些數(shù)字又意味著什么呢？外國(guó)人是否愿意冒著非法居留的危險(xiǎn)來(lái)中國(guó)就業(yè)或是尋找商機(jī)呢？如果是，這是否標(biāo)志中國(guó)正崛起成為機(jī)會(huì)的土壤？我們?cè)谘莶ナ译娫挷稍L了劉國(guó)福，他是一名研究移民法的學(xué)者，曾經(jīng)參與了人大的立法過(guò)程。

Lawmakers also added "green cards", or provisions for permanent residence, to the statue by specifying the criteria one has to meet. We've looked at foreign visitors in China from social, historical and legal perspectives. But what do all these numbers mean? Are foreigners willing to risk illegal residence in China to pursue job and business opportunities? And, if so, is that a symbol of China's rise as a land of opportunity? We called Liu Guofu from our studio. He is a scholar on immigration law and took part in the NPC's legislation process as a consultant.

馮欣：劉老師，我聽(tīng)到一種說(shuō)法，三非外國(guó)人日益增多也反映了中國(guó)逐漸崛起成為機(jī)會(huì)的土壤，那您對(duì)這個(gè)觀點(diǎn)怎么看？

Feng Xin: Mr Liu, I heard a view that the growing number of incidents involving illegal immigrants can partly be seen as a symbol of China's rise as a land of opportunity.What's your opinion?

劉國(guó)福：它這個(gè)說(shuō)對(duì)了一半。外國(guó)人來(lái)中國(guó)肯定是因?yàn)橹袊?guó)的機(jī)會(huì)多他（們）愿意來(lái)。這是一方面，所以我覺(jué)得這一點(diǎn)說(shuō)得是對(duì)的。基數(shù)大了，產(chǎn)生問(wèn)題的可能性也大，“三非”問(wèn)題就多起來(lái)了。另外一方面我覺(jué)得是更重要的，就是我們對(duì)外國(guó)人的管理沒(méi)跟上，這個(gè)邏輯是什么？并不是說(shuō)外國(guó)人來(lái)就一定會(huì)出現(xiàn)“三非”。

I think it's only half correct. Foreigners definitely come to China because there are a lot of opportunities here. That's one side of the story. As the base number of immigrants increases, the chances of problems grow, too. So does the problem of illegal immigrants. But what's more important, as far as I see it, is that our administration of foreigners is inadequate. What I mean is that the increase of foreigners doesn't necessarily result in "three illegals".

馮欣：怎么講，沒(méi)跟上？

Feng Xin: What do you mean by "inadequate"?

劉國(guó)福：為什么有很多非法入境？比如說(shuō)邊檢的問(wèn)題。還有他為什么能夠敢于非法滯留呢？他不知道他簽證到期是什么時(shí)候嗎？他既然知道還敢于違法，說(shuō)明了什么？說(shuō)明我們管理有問(wèn)題，反過(guò)來(lái)就是說(shuō)處罰可能是不到位的或者說(shuō)查處是不全面的，他有僥幸的心理。

Liu Guofu: Let's say illegal entry. Why are there so many cases? It might be due to our border inspection. Also, why do some dare to stay in China illegally? Don't they know when their visas will expire? If they know and still dare to challenge the law, what does this imply? It implies there are problems with our administration. In other words, the punishment might not be severe enough or the inspection is incomplete. And therefore, some think they can get away.

馮欣：那您認(rèn)為我們國(guó)家對(duì)外國(guó)人來(lái)華的政策近十年來(lái)有什么變化？

Feng Xin: In your opinion, how has China's policy on foreigners changed over the last 10 years?

劉國(guó)福：總體上來(lái)講應(yīng)該在不斷地放松。08年有一個(gè)引進(jìn)海外高層次人才的千人計(jì)，是中組部牽頭的，給高層的外國(guó)人很多特殊的待遇、出境的便利、永久居留的便利、包括在華生活的便利、甚至入籍。

Liu Guofu: Generally speaking, the government has been continuously relaxing its policies. In 2008, there was a visa program for attracting foreigners with special talents. It was led by the Organization Department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China. It offers a lot of special treatment to foreigners with talent, like the convenience of leaving the country, permanently staying in the country and even acquiring Chinese citizenship.

04年還有一個(gè)《外國(guó)人在華永久居留管理辦法》，允許他們申請(qǐng)永久居留, 剛才舉了幾個(gè)法規(guī)的例子。另外一個(gè)就是（對(duì)）“三非”的打擊，像廣東、浙江都做過(guò)，北京好像也不是第一次。

In 2004, officials passed the Measures for the Administration of Examination and Approval of Foreigners' Permanent Residence in China. Then there are also crackdowns on the "three illegals". Guangdong and Zhejiang province both did that before. So did Beijing.

馮欣：那您認(rèn)為我們國(guó)家對(duì)外國(guó)人來(lái)華的政策未來(lái)會(huì)向什么方向發(fā)展？

Feng Xin: In your opinion, where will China's policies on foreigners head to in the future?

劉國(guó)福：移民政策的一個(gè)主要目的就是歡迎能為本國(guó)做出貢獻(xiàn)的人。你能為我們國(guó)家做出貢獻(xiàn)，我就歡迎你來(lái)，你做不了貢獻(xiàn)，甚至還是害群之馬，就反對(duì)你來(lái)。簡(jiǎn)單來(lái)講就是這個(gè)意思，因?yàn)槿肆鲃?dòng)可以流向中國(guó)大陸，也可以流向日本、臺(tái)灣地區(qū)。

Liu Guofu: The main purpose of immigration law is to welcome those who can make contributions to a host country. If you can make contributions to our country, we will welcome you. If you can't, and even do us harm, we will stop you from coming. That's it. People can flow to the Chinese mainland as well as to Japan and Taiwan.

還有和國(guó)際上相競(jìng)爭(zhēng)，它是不斷發(fā)展和變化的。它是有彈性的、有競(jìng)爭(zhēng)性的一種法律資格，不能簡(jiǎn)單地要門(mén)檻高或者門(mén)檻低。能不能設(shè)計(jì)出或者制定出更精巧、更完善的法律制度去吸引我們需要的、能為本國(guó)做出經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)展貢獻(xiàn)的外國(guó)人，而且也能夠制定出精巧的、很?chē)?yán)密的法律制度去堵住那些我們不歡迎的人進(jìn)來(lái)，這是出境入境管理法的宗旨。

Also, countries compete with each other on receiving immigrants. It's a changing and evolving issue. It's flexible and competitive. We can't simply make it easier or harder for people to come. Can we create an elaborate system of laws to attract those we need, those who can make contributions to our economic development as well as to stop those who are not welcome from coming? That should be the principle of immigration law.

馮欣：那從打擊“三非”外國(guó)人這件事我們看到更深層次的一個(gè)問(wèn)題，那就是怎樣對(duì)待來(lái)華的外國(guó)人，那么對(duì)這個(gè)問(wèn)題您有什么看法？

Feng Xin: Well, from the police's action on the "three illegals", we see a deeper question, which is how China should treat its foreign population. What do you think?

劉國(guó)福：人員的跨國(guó)流動(dòng)是有一定規(guī)律的。越發(fā)達(dá)的國(guó)家，國(guó)際人口的流動(dòng)越頻繁，占本國(guó)的比例越高。發(fā)達(dá)地區(qū)都（達(dá)到）10％至15％，一些北歐（地區(qū)）達(dá)到20％，北京現(xiàn)在1％還不到，遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)落后于發(fā)達(dá)國(guó)家，所以它們是有些規(guī)律的。

Liu Guofu: The international flow of population has its own rules. The more developed a country is, the more frequently its population flows and the higher percentage of its population foreigners take up. In developed regions, the percentage usually reaches 10% to 15%. Some regions in northern Europe even reach 20%. But Beijing hasn't even reached 1%, which is far from developed countries. So, there are certain rules.

這個(gè)法的目的就是調(diào)整符合人員國(guó)際流動(dòng)的規(guī)律，比如說(shuō)外國(guó)人想到中國(guó)來(lái)，你就不能硬堵，不能違反人口流動(dòng)的規(guī)律。該歡迎的還是給他更多的渠道，給他更多的方式讓他進(jìn)來(lái)，不該進(jìn)來(lái)的那一定要嚴(yán)格打擊。

The law is to help a country adjust its policies to best follow the rules. If people want to come to China, we can't simply reject them. We can't go against the pattern of international migration. For those who should be welcomed, we should offer them more opportunities, but for those who shouldn't, we must strictly control their arrival.

衡量一個(gè)國(guó)家的現(xiàn)代化、國(guó)際化有很多個(gè)指標(biāo)。國(guó)際移民應(yīng)該是其中的一個(gè)指標(biāo)，因?yàn)閲?guó)際流動(dòng)就是人的流動(dòng), 人的流動(dòng)會(huì)讓整個(gè)社會(huì)活起來(lái)。它注入了新的資本、新的技術(shù)、新的思想，會(huì)激活原有的技術(shù)、資本和思想，讓它們進(jìn)行碰撞，產(chǎn)生新的東西。如果一個(gè)地區(qū)永遠(yuǎn)是本土的人，那這個(gè)地區(qū)一定是保守和落后的。

To measure the degree of a country's modernization and globalization, there are many indicators. International migration is one of them. International migration is the flow of people. The flow of people will energize a society. It injects new capital, technology and ideas into a society. It stimulates old technology, capital and ideas. When they collide, there will be new things created. If a region is only inhabited by its indigenous residents, it must be conservative and underdeveloped.

Archive · 往期

Watching China’s budget
解析中國(guó)預(yù)算

How can ordinary people make sense of China's budget?
普通人如何能弄懂中國(guó)的預(yù)算？

What makes it difficult for graduates to find jobs?
大學(xué)生就業(yè)難，難在哪？

Why do we often hear stories about college graduates unable to find jobs? -- 為什么我們經(jīng)常聽(tīng)到畢業(yè)生找不到工作的事？

Does China have enough jobs for college graduates?招工難，難在哪？

What makes it difficult for employers to recruit enough workers? And what makes it difficult for job seekers to find such employers? 是什么造成了用人單位的“招工難”？又是什么讓求職者難以找到這些雇主？

Does China have enough money to fund its pensioners?
中國(guó)有沒(méi)有足夠的養(yǎng)老錢(qián)？

How much money can we receive after we retire? At what age should we start planning our retirement? 退休后我們到底能領(lǐng)多少錢(qián)？到什么年齡應(yīng)該計(jì)劃養(yǎng)老問(wèn)題？

Should Chinese people retire later?
中國(guó)人是否應(yīng)該晚退休？

In what social context is the government’s proposal to push back China's retirement age rooted? 6月5日，人力資源和社會(huì)保障部提出，未來(lái)會(huì)逐步將退休年齡推遲五年。這樣做有什么深層的社會(huì)原因？

Illegal immigrants: China's rise as a land of opportunity?
“三非”外國(guó)人：中國(guó)成為機(jī)會(huì)之地？

Is the increase of incidents involving illegal immigrants a symbol of China's rise as a land of opportunity? -- "三非"外國(guó)人日益增多，是否意味著中國(guó)成為機(jī)會(huì)的土壤？

Legislating domestic violence in China: Concepts - 中國(guó)反家庭暴力立法：概念

Digest China explores the concept of domestic violence and the difficulty in proving it. 本期探討“家庭暴力”這個(gè)概念的本身和取證的困難。

Legislating domestic violence in China: Obstacles - 中國(guó)反家庭暴力立法：難點(diǎn)

Digest China explores some decade-long obstacles and difficulties in the process. 本期《解析中國(guó)》探討中國(guó)反家庭暴力立法進(jìn)程中長(zhǎng)期存在的阻力和分歧。